How would you know whether an ancient culture had zero?

(johndcook.com)

41 points | by ibobev 3 days ago

4 comments

  • lisp2240 3 hours ago

    Zero has two roles: as a positional placeholder and as a cardinal value (nothingness or net-zero). This only addresses the former.

    • j16sdiz 2 hours ago

      Afaict, most ancient civization have conception of "nothingness" or "emptiness". The dispute is often whether they consider it as a number or not

      • philipov 21 minutes ago

        We have both. Zero and Null are different data types.

    • gmuslera 4 hours ago

      Looks like translating a positional numbering system from ancient cultures than ruling out or not if they had the concept of zero. It may be a single use symbol, here is nothing, instead of being part of bigger amounts. Numbering systems doesn't have to be positional (nor go too far).

      • whatsThisBtn4 4 hours ago

        Gosh I love Wittgenstein for this.

        I highly recommend suffering through both early and late Wittgenstein (only wrote 2 books and essentially invented one of the 3 branches of philosophy).

        Expect to only understand 10% of what he says, but that is normal.

        Separately, pragmatism by William James is an easy 4 hour read and you can have 2/3 of the branches of meta philosophy.

      • conartist6 2 hours ago

        What I wonder is: why has nobody noticed that code editors lack a concept of 0?

        When you're writing code, you can express any concept except that of an unfilled hole. We've rearranged every part of the coding process in a twisted-up way, all for the lack of a way to express lack.

        If you want to be more clear about what I mean, look to tools which can express holes like https://scratch.mit.edu and https://hazel.org. They give the feeling of letting things snap together like lego bricks. Indeed, lego bricks themselves function because of the negative space (the holes) in them!

        • mungoman2 26 minutes ago

          This could be interesting but too vague for me to understand what you mean. Could it be explained more clearly, or link some blog entry?

          • conartist6 13 minutes ago

            Yeah, I will. I'm being a bit coy because I already have a very specific solution in mind which would be a lot like Scratch, but unifying those ideas with syntax. It should be fully ready to share quite soon.

          • dosisking 20 minutes ago

            Like Madlibs?

            • onestay42 2 hours ago

              How about an `extern` variable in C?

              • conartist6 2 hours ago

                A million variations exist. I'm looking for a programming-language-agnostic concept. The closest you'll find are templating languages like Handlebars

          • thaumasiotes 40 minutes ago

            > If you knew somehow that some symbol corresponds to 20, then you’d know they didn’t use base 20 because base b doesn’t have a single symbol for b.

            Well, this is plainly false.