I had a high-end webcam that flickered. There should be switch in the software to switch from 50hz to 60hz that'd fix it but it was nowhere to be found. After digging deeper I found that it was only available in English version of software. It was before macOS had Setting to set language per app, so I had to manually replace Polish bundle with English one through binary.
Another one: Has K810 keyboard that started in "FN-by-default" mode. K811, Mac version of said keyboard allowed for changing default setting just as K810 on Windows, but K810 on Mac - no dice. Support told me to shell out 200€ on Mac keyboard so I ended up writing small binary switcher [0] that would run after keyboard got connected [0].
> the genai content on the website is just so distracting and such a bummer
That's harsh. Consider English might not be the author's first language (I see Chinese on the screenshots). Just opening the site I get all the info I need from the text (local first, no account, no telemetry, that's great), install instructions are immediately visible, there are screenshots, even the config file format is one scroll away. This is a great landing page for an open source tool.
> Consider English might not be the author's first language
This is clearly LLM-written text, not something that the author asked an LLM to translate from a different language. Not sure how the author's first language is relevant.
The author may very well be working in Mandarin or something and asked it to create an english language explanation of the project. Then the LLM generated the text based on their request.
They could've written text in Mandarin and used an LLM (or any other translation tool) to translate it to English, which wouldn't have introduced the LLM writing style.
They didn't, so the reason isn't that English isn't their first language, it's that they didn't want to spend time writing text. In which case I don't understand how this is different from a native English speaker doing the same thing.
Who cares? Even if it’s LLM generated (which is not 100% sure, I’m pretty sure I could have written this description with bold keywords myself), the text is dense and easy to read. Rejecting LLM output without even thinking about the content doesn’t make any sense.
> the genai content on the website is just so distracting and such a bummer. It sticks out like sore thumb.
The comment is fair and accurate. The vacuous marketing speak is tedious, unpleasant and risks undermining the technology it makes a flailing attempt to describe.
Your non-native English speaker excuse is neither fair nor accurate since an AI translation of a human-written Mandarin language text does not introduce the style of writing being criticised.
Not every open source project requires a grandiose marketing site littered with manipulative, cloying language. Let the project speak for itself.
Only significant change I would make is have the top navbar not be transparent with body content underlaid beneath it, which makes things hard to read when the page is scrolled. And move some of the links at the very bottom of page like 'github' into the top navbar.
As LLM generated template web GUI go it's relatively inoffensive, at least it's easy to navigate and doesn't waste time with sliders, animated effects, etc. It's just a navbar across the top and then content.
As far as the page body content goes it seems like LLMs have taken a little bit too enthusiastically to an Apple style presentation of product features.
It's not virtue signalling but it shows that if the author of said software (if there's one) didn't bother to spend time writing things on the website, there's a correlation that they wouldn't bother spending time writing code either.
And that's what I see first thing on the repo. Lots of LLM-style writing in the README, which makes me think if this is a vibecoded app, which looks like it.
This website still would have taken at least a week to make. It’s pretty nice for an open source project website.
Between no website and shiny but crappy LLM website, I’ll take the latter, and I wouldn’t wish another 2 weeks of unpaid copy writing on any open source dev.
You can be a seasoned engineer but making websites is still a major b**. The small tasks required to make it "presentable" site just compound, until you just don't even want to do it.
Thank you Lordy for LLMs because I am going to hurt myself if I ever have to design and wire another contact form.
One of the reasons why people just go "meh, whatever, good enough" and install wordpress, use some popular wordpress contact form. Have it give mail to a postfix daemon on same server that listens only on localhost and relays outbound via your own infra. Or similar. A base wordpress install is pretty hard to screw up if you don't start adding weird plugins to it, and it will auto-update itself by default. I can't even imagine taking the time now to do this by hand.
Okay, but how about a shiny LLM website but with human-written text that's actually nice to read and not some unedited AI output? That doesn't take a week.
People manage to write 500 word essays in school in a few days just fine, but writing a website landing page suddenly takes two months?
According to wordcounter.net, this landing page has 850 words. Most of that is just LLM fluff that could easily be removed, but even if you want to keep the original size, to spend two months on this you have to be writing less than 15 words a day.
> People manage to write 500 word essays in school in a few days just fine, but writing a website landing page suddenly takes two months?
What the h... I mean, it's an opensource software to make Logitech's users life less miserable, and you are comparing that to the effort of a student writing an essay, where their only or main job during those days is writing the essay?
It's just a bit of text for a website that describes what a product does, what features it has, and maybe an FAQ. It shouldn't take you long. For something like this you can even start with LLM text and then rewrite it in your own words and it will sound much better .
Having had to edit the documentation from native English speakers in the past, rewriting "in their own words" made it unclear, way too detailed about unnecessary options, and badly formed sentences.
The average person cannot write good documentation (or website copy). It's an actual skill to learn how to phrase things, ensure that the documentation delivers the right level of detail to the different reader types etc.
As English writers, software developers make great programmers, not authors.
Except "website made by LLM" almost invariably means the software was "written" by an LLM too, and thus is likely full of security vulnerabilities, bugs, and so on. It may also mean that github issues are being reviewed by an AI, which opens the door up to the AI to malicious prompting.
I think I strongly disagree with your first sentence. Strongly. I've worked with enough people with fine coding skills and terrible English to know that the two are not an uncommon combination. Last year, I worked with someone whose first language was something from China - no idea which flavour - and they would often pass their written comms through an LLM. I could tell when they had done so by the onset of sudden grammatical correctness. But I don't think they were doing this with the intention of deceiving, merely of communicating clearly and correctly.
Now, I often find Claude's idea of idiomatic prose to be a bit load-bearingly seam-hitting as it lands not this point, but THAT one, but it is probably better than something hacked out by a person who confuses tenses, cases, pronouns and when they can enverb a noun. So I tend towards giving people the benefit of the doubt on this.
Lastly, if you think LLM-written software is full of security vulnerabilities and bugs, I have terrible news for you about the state of human-written code. The fact that what we do is often better than nothing at all, is no big recommendation.
> I've worked with enough people with fine coding skills and terrible English
What about people with fine English and terrible coding skills?
What about people with both terrible English and terrible coding skills?
> Now, I often find Claude's idea of idiomatic prose to be a bit load-bearingly seam-hitting as it lands not this point, but THAT one, but it is probably better than something hacked out by a person who confuses tenses, cases, pronouns and when they can enverb a noun. So I tend towards giving people the benefit of the doubt on this.
Personally, I find AI writing as insufferable as anyone else (though Anthropic's is particularly bad, maybe just due to my familiarity with it), but I wouldn't judge individuals for using it to make communication more readable, rephrase what they mean etc. If anything, any difficulty in reading my prose would support that.
> Lastly, if you think LLM-written software is full of security vulnerabilities and bugs, I have terrible news for you about the state of human-written code. The fact that what we do is often better than nothing at all, is no big recommendation.
I guess a lot depends on how you use the LLMs (I bet horrible coding skills coincide with horribly lazy and problematic usage of LLMs for development too), but I wonder how humans actually stack up to the slop-machine when it comes to how good or bad the code they produce is on average, since I'm sure that SOTA model code by now tends towards the upper end of that.
In other words, if a person wants to limit themselves to avoiding LLM code over fears of it being bad, they would also have to avoid any any all code written by people that essentially produced the problematic training dataset, as well as any programmers with the same capabilities (or lack thereof). You'd basically have to avoid using a lot/most of the software out there if that's your quality standard.
Dumb question but its because I genuinely do not know better. What is the security risk of what is as far as i understand a mouse driver with config options?
For downloadable software there is the risk of a supply chain attack. The website is altered to provide a download with a malware-infected version of the software.
a mouse is an input device. most security challenges (passwords, etc.) are input via input devices. those are at a risk of being compromised. also clicks on an on-screen keyboard, etc. in fact, if u think about it, input device data (also know as telemetry - ironically, what we are trying to prevent in the first place by the logi app to do) security is a very serious potential attack vector.
Yeah even if the software is good there's just something sad about realizing you're reading AI generated text. Even if its proofread and factually correct it just comes across as cheap and low effort, moreso when the content gets duplicated in a pointless FAQ that just restates everything you just read
This is a pathetic take.
1) Life is short and shortcuts and avoiding work are not inherently the wrong path to take.
2) Is the code you've almost certainly had an LLM write for you in the past a sign that you have low moral character and let yourself down by taking shortcuts and avoiding work too?
The FAQ technique is LLM/SEO crumbs because people usually search for questions, if you have the exact likely question text that maps to user's search you're more likely to rank. It's unfortunate but it works, like open mouth YouTube thumbnails.
It’s still hollow and cheap. I closed those sites immediately even before LLMs. You need to pay me to waste my time, not the other way around. Even if that’s using your then not-so-free app.
That’s not feedback, just a non-constructive opinion. As someone else wrote above, if you’re so precious about it then help out the devs of the project and submit design PRs.
This is absurd. No one has an obligation to help anyone nor do they owe you any standard of help. Opinion on quality of output is constructive to the wise and an opportunity to scream "If you can do better than do it" for the small minded.
Nothing wrong with the AI website but it suggests the code is AI too.
Nothing wrong with AI code either but it suggests the project may have been built in 2 weeks, has no community and low likelihood of ongoing maintenance.
So now overall instead of a flashy website I think the best signal of quality is a boring GitHub README and several months of commit activity, lots of merged PRs.
How much ongoing maintenance and community do you need around a mouse configuration utility? If it works for your current mouse, cool. If, down the road, it breaks on a windows update, you get a new mouse, etc; stop using it and you’ll get a full refund for what you paid.
Yeah i agree, the main problema with ai building (wether back end or front end) is that it leaves a lot of holes behind, that at some point really need to be fixex
A "nice site" was a proxy metric for "thoughtful competence". It was always flawed, but LLMs put the final nail in that particular coffin.
bellard.org style text-only, get-to-the-point-please content will the way forwards. "browsers" can then style and rewrite it till the cows come home - with fancy slideshows, LLMisms, carrousels, the works - or not and nobody will be worse off.
The way we structure content these days is insane. Separate content from presentation, please.
> Quit Logi Options+ before launching: the two fight over HID++ access, and only one app can own a receiver at a time. On Linux, the same applies to Solaar.
This support Windows and macOS in addition to Linux. I'm not in a hurry to disrupt things on my Linux machine, but I might just have to try this on the other platforms.
While it does look extremely likely that AI is used for the copy writing, and probably for some of the code maintenance, I'm not convinced that this is being vibe coded.
Shocking that in this time and age, a simple peripheral like a mouse still needs a dedicated piece of software to be installed. In my Linux boxes, I just plug in a standard mouse and get the standard functions. I think the device driver should know about the low-level interface to the mouse: know how it points, what buttons, scroll wheels, and other inputs it may have, etc. Then the OS would process it like any mouse. If you need to connect some buttons to specific actions, that could be handled by a user-level program running on the machine that could know how to do those actions. But that level should be far removed from knowing what brand (or type) of input device you are using.
Of course producers like Logitech want you to install their own thing, so as to make it harder for you to switch to other brands of hardware, but an open system like Linux should not play along with that.
Of course the Logitech mouse can be plugged and will just work without installation. The software allows to customize buttons, macros, DPI ranges, lights, etc.
Still sucks, but it's not really needed to make it work or use it.
Simple mouses have simple interfaces and its functions are built into the OS. These mouses are a little bit beyond simple. These are ten button interfaces. So there is the default programming. And custom programming. The software is for custom programming.
Not long ago mouses came with a paper manua, a CD with drivers, and if you we're paying top dollar, a desktop application that would let you set defaults for the entire OS for the one or two extra buttons you used to get.
But do we still trust the open source software that is created now everything is vibe coded?
Recently there was a thread about Chatto [1], a Slack replacement completely vibe coded by one person. It works and looks nice. But looking at the code, I wouldn’t trust any of my personal information to it. It’s just tousands of lines of skills and vague instructions. It seems that trust in OSS is eroding and big SaaS might win here because they have the reputation.
So you trusted 22-year-old coffee junkies copying and pasting from stack overflow 10 years ago but when a language model does it it's suddenly offensive? We should be instead celebrating how we have a mini software company at our fingertips ready to fix the broken hobbyist shit we've never had time for. OpenLogi is a perfect example of this use case and that it's open source makes it more trustworthy not less.
I don't think stackoverflow contains code to integrate a keylogger in a mouse driver. Copy-paste isn't that bad. Most of the (coding) LLMs however probably do know how to do that. They enable script kiddies to make more dangerous tools. So yes, vibe coding is a danger.
Where did I say you should audit all the code you run daily?
Not sure if you're being manipulative on purpose or if you genuinely did not understand my point. I was talking about "trust", which is a whole concept in itself.
I judge it on a case-by-case basis by just looking at a few recent commits and the feel of clicking a few files in the repo. For OpenLogi I get the wrong type of vibe code vibes and at the very least that means the project might become an unmaintainable mess in a year and that means I don't want to come to rely on it. At worst it means security vulnerabilities.
That being said: I wouldn't really trust SaaS to not be vibe-coded either. The only difference there is that SaaS likely has a financial incentive to stay maintainable so you could argue that helps.
You shouldn't trust open source software because it is open source. You should trust open source software because it has been audited, and only when it has been audited by people you trust (it may be yourself).
Whether it's vibe-coded or not doesn't change that. If it is vibe-coded and unreadable, how is it different from manually-written and unreadable? If it is vibe-coded and readable, how is it different from manually-written and readable?
Judge the code by its quality, not by its provenance.
If I was going to make a keylogger this is pretty much how I'd do it - no need to sneak an application onto a user's machine to capture keystrokes when they'd willingly install it because it's better than the terrible official software.
I hate Options+ as much as the next guy - but don't have the time / technical knowledge to audit thoroughly enough to establish trust in this.
I'm nearing the replacement point on my current MX Master - so is there a better alternative to Logitech?
I believe it varies; since it's merely a productivity tool, why not use it? However, if it's essential software that your business relies on, probably not.
This is an underappreciated possibility that opened up. It now becomes at least viable to thoroughly inspect large code bases. It's not easy and never will be, but now we're not limited to the amound of literal eyeballs available.
Be careful of prompt injection. Some people think nothing of adding harmful instructions to their repositories. Sol and Opus seem to be smart enough not to fall for it, but I don't know about other models.
I don't see the issue. The beauty of OSS is that you can audit the code yourself and evaluate it according to your standards.
Do you trust all OSS repos coded before 2024? AI-generated code is no different than code written by a human with different levels of seniority, different levels of focus, or different levels of discipline. A human is perfectly capable of generating spaghetti code too.
Code is simply math. It either works or it does not. Does your calculator work? Then use it. Does your AI agent of choice produce code that works? Then use it.
Or don't. It's up to you. You're as free to walk away as you are to embrace what's been made here.
Code is, but running application aren't "math". They have side effects - like uploading your private keys to hostile servers - which "math" conveniently ignores.
This is a bit of an uncharitable take.
"It either works or it does not" is an oversimplification when you consider that code often doesn't work in the way it was intended - that's what bugs are. Are vibe coded apps inherently more buggy? Not necessarily. But the I'd argue there's more surface in a vibe coded app that requires blind trust.
Good to see open source alternatives to the awful Logitech software. I only realized how bad the Logitech software is after switching from a G502 with on-board memory to an MX Master mouse that does not have on-board memory and needs to have the app constantly running in the background to use the gestures.
Personally I've been using BetterMouse on macOS with my MX Master, although it's not open source.
I have a "G" series 512 keyboard. And it seemingly can't save anything into the memory (on windows I had to use the logitech's bloatware). And the absolute worst part is that it is set to RGB colors moving around by default, so I've been running openrgb every OS boot to set the lights to a neutral, non-flashing, much much less intensive color. Happy to see alternatives to that.
This is so nuts. It’s literally a multi device mouse - supports 3 bluetooth connections in memory, but I need to install the options app on every single pc/mac I want to use it on. Nuts!
The tap includes a GH action to track upstream releases (as long as I notice the PR!). Also, the offline version only compensates for some of the issues with Options+.
Cool project, but I hate how every new site has this obviously LLM generated copy :(
I feel like most people who use it for their copy don’t realize how obvious it is.
At this point we should be sharing prompts not code for solutions like OpenLogi. Reverse engineering many things can typically be one-shotted (ignoring things like.. capturing a pcap or whatever to aid the effort). Let others add their own taste to the solution.
Isn't it wasteful to have everyone go off and remake the same software with slightly different bugs in it instead of one that fixes almost all of the bugs
Please no, I couldn’t care about your prompts, there is nothing special about them. Anyone can look at the generated artifact and reverse engineer their own prompt in no time
Does it matter? People get caught up on LLM this and sure, a professional beats an LLM currently but I'd rather read some well written LLM text over some poorly written human effort
If it matters is subjective. But personally I stop reading when I notice it’s AI text because there is never anything in it worth reading. It’s just a prompt expanded in to paragraphs of filler text.
This kind of tool doesn’t need a whole Apple style marketing page to sell you on it.
It also signals effort to me, when I see vibeslop text I know the project most likely is a one shot weekend project full of issues which won’t be resolved. I’ve seen good examples of AI use in open source, and those projects write the readme and website copy without AI.
> I'd rather read some well written LLM text over some poorly written human effort
I think it depends a bit what's meant by "poorly" but I don't think I share that preference at all.
I would 100% rather read a developers copy explaining why they wanted to build something and what they think is useful about it, even if it isn't particularly polished.
As a comparison, LLM generated "marketing schlock" is polished, but it's normally pretty empty and doesn't convey much of it's value.
As an example, I use lazygit (a TUI git interface) - at least at the time I looked at it, the main intro was a youtube video of the developer talking through the features. It wasn't polished at all, but it did a great job of convincing me that lazygit was a project with a lot of love and thought put into it.
Your LLM text is obviously not well written if we spot it after 2 seconds. I won’t read it, doesn’t matter how beautiful it is, it’s just pure cringe, I notice, roll my eyes, close the tab. Please give me the poorly written human effort. Is it really that hard to spend 10minutes reading what you produced to see if that feels genuine?
I read plenty of not-obviously-AI-generated text and I much prefer doing that, even if it’s not from a professional.
It’s not about the quality of the text itself. If Claude was one person with a human level of output, Claude would probably be considered decent at writing.
But when I have to read the same genre of slop on 1 million different sites it gets really really annoying imo.
It's not that hard if you put in the effort and practice.
But if you don't want to and still want to use an LLM, there are low-bar choices you can make (using a technical writing skill, using ASD-STE100 Simplified Technical English, choosing your audience, proofreading at the end with human eyes to make sure it makes sense and doesn't repeat itself uselessly).
I think it shows either a) low respect or consideration for your audience or yourself, or b) laziness.
Trust yourself to write even if it's bad. At least it's human.
Well that was a waste of time. Tried this for my MX 3:
- The DPI slider did nothing most of the time, but sometimes the cursor movement changed when clicking a button or switching windows.
- No matter what I chose, the scroll wheel was stuck at absolute maximum sensitivity setting scrolling about a thousand lines per ratchet click. There was also no way to disable the "smart" switch to freewheel spinning.
- For some reason, tapping the thumb wheel triggered Task View. Tapping the thumb wheel isn't even listed as an interaction so no way to change or disable this.
Love the idea of an "open" version of Logi options, but this is just terribly executed. Can't state anything about the code but the bewildering behavior and weird bugs definitely smelled like vibe slop.
That's because - given the flashy page and branding and all - it's irrelevant.
The thing is not about code or solving a problem, and we also shouldn't be pretending that it is, because that is what slop, grifters and businesspeople bank on.
Also, you can be sure that the features that do exist are half-baked at best, given that any person with eyes can see that the priorities lie elsewhere.
I think this sentiment deserves its own serious discussion. It probably won't happen for another few years when the emotions and defensiveness settle, but there's a separate problem happening from quality. Quantity is its own problem. Whether or not any of these hourly new product announcements are any good, nobody can possibly try 24 different pieces of software a day, let alone switch to actually using them. So all we get are superficial heuristic analyses basically amounting to either "cool, this looks vaguely similar to something I might want" or "AI;DR."
Agentic coding will do for indie software what dating apps did for human relationships. Animal brains are not equipped to deal with having this much choice.
Tbf, in this case, it flags based on something we had before AI as well.
Open<Brand> + SEO on Steroids webpage is usually misaligned with the user. That didn't really change. The only thing that did change is that producing this slop has gotten much much cheaper.
What is true though is that eventually, even the most gullible person will have been exposed to this so much, even they will finally manage to stop their hijacked justice reflex from twitching and defending garbage against their own best interest.
I've been a trackpad proponent for years, but with Steermouse I've been able to dial in my MX Master so perfectly that I find myself missing it when I travel.
What really took it to the next level for me were adding chord mappings. For example I can hold right mouse button + scroll the thumb wheel to adjust volume. So convenient!
Not being open source is the thing that the program in the article fixes. You want the goal of the software-writer to be producing a good tool, not using the software as a means to turn a profit. That's how you get the turd being replaced by the tool in the article
I have a sneaking suspicion that if everyone proffering an LLM coding opinion stated their languages and area of focus/expertise we’d all be in a lot more agreement about the output…
Example 1: “as a JavaScript front-end developer working with React and node, I think LLMs save 500 hours a week and are better than anyone on our team.” <— easy to believe
Example 2: “as a backend Erlang developer working on life-critical systems the inconsistent output makes LLMs dangerous and the code is tidy but terrible at scale.” <— fully congruent with the first example
As an iOS developer, I have yet to see two different teams agree on best practices, architecture, or code style, and the only reason I've seen anyone agree on UI frameworks is that I've been in slightly more teams/seen more ads than there even are widely-used UI frameworks; and despite all the big promises in the job adverts, 95% of the work has been to take someone else's existing UI design and connect it to someone else's existing API.
LLMs fit right in.
(Unlike me: I'm burned out by iOS and LLMs came at exactly the right time).
Yeah, that's what I think every time I read some discussion online about AI coding assistants. Programming is such a wide field with presence in so many different industries, with all sorts of languages and environments, and many people seem to forget that not everything is webdev. You see one person saying they barely need to code by hand anymore and another who can't believe that because their experience has been the complete opposite, when they're probably both right.
For a while now BetterTouchTool [0] supports Logitech mice [1]. It's paid, but it's absolutely worth its price. It's super powerful and you can do all kinds of funky stuff with it, not only mouse related. I would suggest looking into it if you want more advanced features, I've been a very happy user for many years now.
I used to use it (better mouse) before BTT added Logitech support - but wasn't really happy with it. Every single update changed something, mostly my cursor speed in some small, but sufficiently noticeable way and I had to adjust it every time, which was super annoying.
At some point my settings kept getting lost every time my mac went to sleep, and I had to restart the app all the time. I messaged the developer, but never received any response or acknowledgement and I just dropped it. It's a pity, because I did like it for a period of time while I was initially using it.
The one thing I use the most, and how I found it in the first place is that it allows me to combine key presses with mouse gestures/movements. In particular it allows me to move/resize the windows under the cursor just by pressing a key combination and moving my mouse. Many many years ago I used to use AutoHotkey on Windows for this functionality and was missing it when I switched to Mac.
Another thing I've configured is scrolling through a key press and dragging the mouse. Or opening a floating menu by using the thumb button on my MX Master3.
And that's only mouse functions, I have a bunch of other shortcuts/remappings/automations, many of which run only for specific apps.
Have a look in the forum - it's a gold mine and a lot of people have shared their presets.
I've had a paid licence for it for many years but I have ended up shying away from using it because the UI is just so cumbersome. An incredibly powerful piece of software though.
I haven't tried the LLM approach recommended in the sibling comment, and I agree that the UI is quite cumbersome. Yet, once it clicks, it's still not super straightforward, but it allows for quickly implementing whatever one needs. I guess the UI complexity comes with its extremely powerful capabilities.
Get an LLM to generate a preset for what you want - it's ultimately driven by a json config. There are quite a few presets in the forum as well for various functions
Last time I checked the underlying daemon, libratbag, didn't have support for the G502X wireless mouse and although there were Issues and Pull Requests open, no movement had been made towards getting those in.
I tried to switch to Mouser, but it leaked memory like crazy, taking sometimes tens of GB of RAM so I just vibed a replacement based on my very specific needs.
I once heard a story about an old Logitech webcam driver in windows. Once it was installed, it would always scan for the webcam and if it wasn’t detected it would write to an error log. So if you set up the webcam once and then got rid of it without uninstalling the driver it would always dump logs upon logs. Eventually a user had their entire disk space filled and when they dug into it they found a single tens or hundreds of GB log file. Uninstalling the driver fixed it.
One of the main features of Logi Options + is the plugins which this application doesn't seem to support; you can load it locally or from their marketplace[1].
I myself have an accessibility related plugin to make clicking easier [2] built using their Logi Actions SDK. It finds the clickable elements near the cursor and displays them in the Actions Ring and the LCD keypad. If you have the Logi Dialpad then you can have a complete mouse free workflow with Access Ring.
I'm always terrified of Bluetooth mice. I've never seen one with the same low latency as a USB mouse. The difference is sometimes subtle, but it's there.
Typically the wireless mice connect over noon-bluetooth wireless protocols and offer bluetooth as fallback, if at all.
Click-to-screen latency is a combination of reporting rate, polling rate and latency within the software stack. Default USB HID polling rate is 125Hz so if you don't do anything extra on top this is what you get anyway. Even higher grade "office" mice offer higher reporting rates than that, "gaming" mice can easily be 1 kHz.
I always thought this is a rule of thumb, but then I learned that wireless gamepads for popular consoles (back then it was PS3/PS4 era) don't really follow that pattern. I came across multiple tests where older wireless PS controllers and xbox controllers were consistently more responsive in practice.
For modern ones there are some cool posts like this one [1], where most of the time there "were no statistically significant difference", or even wireless was more responsive.
Gamepads always impressed me - they can deliver insanely good response times while streaming high quality audio with no lag. I never found other BT accessories for phones/computers that were even close to that smooth experience.
For pro gaming perhaps the difference would make the slightest difference. For casuals, let alone office workers, the difference is 0 (writing this with a mx master 4 next to me).
Saying this as someone who has tried dozens of mice in my life. Last corded-one, bought for my son yesterday (razer cobra minecraft edition). I don't think I'd be able to tell the difference between wired and wireless in a blind test.
Dongles are indeed not perceivably different than wired in principle. However, you may have more latency variability, or even unstable connectivity, depending on what adjacent usb ports are doing, due to interference [0].
I have had cases where dongles were practically unusable in my setup, up to completely losing connectivity when transferring data through an adjacent port.
I have had issues with an otherwise decent 2022 computer, had to arrange usb connections in specific ways to avoid brief connectivity drops. It did not happen all the time, but it did happen. But the worst problems were older ones.
USB ports have probably better shielding nowadays. But even so, the protocols and radio frequency ranges are still the same, so if I do not see a specific test on that (measuring latency distribution while adjacent port busy) I would not trust it if latency was important, even if it "feels" the same. And not all of us have professional gaming equipment or otherwise of much better quality.
If adjacent ports are not busy there should not be an issue nowadays, probably.
I'm not sure this supports G502 as it's supposed to be controlled by Logitech G HUB.
Anyway, if you want a CLI replacement for G HUB, I played a bit with opengcontrol [1] to support my new G502 using Claude Code. I wrote a short blog post about it as well [2]. I even got a battery indicator for my menu bar.
I tried it for about a month, but I was having several issues whereby the scroll direction kept inverting, the thumb button not sticking to its program, and smartshift not triggering when scrolling. In the end I regrettably went back to logi options+.
If the device renderings are fetched from assets.openlogi.org, it's technically not telemetry free, though I guess we can trust the author to not track every call?
Before clicking, I thought this might be a reverse engineering attempt of the Logitech Harmony series of universal remotes, which have been discontinued but do still work, albeit cloud tethered for updates. There’s still a strong demand for this in the home automation space, if you read forums on the topic. Oh well, hopefully there’s a few more years in my Harmony Hub and Elite.
This is awesome! Thank you so much for great work! I love it, I wasn't even aware of the actions ring! Off-topic - does anyone know if something like this exists for Keychron keyboards?
Logitech mice and keyboards have extra features that the OS would consider non-standard; you can customize a lot of behaviors as well as map extra buttons to specific actions. For some reason, Logitech decided not to store customization settings on-device so there is a background daemon that must run on the host. Also inexplicably, it is an electron app with a 600MB install footprint requiring online connectivity (apparently there's also an offline version, weighing in at 1.2GB). Also not available on Linux.
You usually don’t _need_ it but there are a couple things you can’t do without it. Pairing a mouse/kb to their usb receiver for example is not possible without it.
The latest LogiOptions plus is a nightmare and I was really happy to see this. However, looking at comments I have now found one more alternative which I had not heard of. Thanks HN. I also have installed karabiner elements for some of the mouse remapping.
I use the Master MX 3s specifically because of the "gestures" button, it was mandatory for me to replace using the trackpad. It's basically a thumb button you can press and combine with a mouse gesture to do the same thing as finger gestures on the trackpad. I mainly use the gestures left/right (to switch between full screen apps/main dektop) and up (mission control) but it's all configurable. It also has an horizontal scroll wheel that's very useful when using Excel or DB viewers.
Finally. I've been stuck with my onboard selections for a year now due to lack of motivation to deal with windows. Definitely gonna be checking this out.
Never heard of Logitech options, have just had G Hub installed for ages (and had a huge number of problems with it on MacOS when I first got the G502 lightspeed 3y ago).
Looks like this is for the "Logi" high end office series. They use different software for some reason, I guess Logitech thinks their customers don't want to see anything gaming related in their app because it looks unprofessional.
I've been using Mouser but it keeps crashing on MacOS 27 beta for me and at 500MB+ of memory use it appears to be approaching the official app's heaviness...
So this appeared at just the right moment for me, thanks!
That you haven’t used a mouse for years is (presumably) a fact, not an opinion. But what’s your point in stating that in this thread? Obviously mouse users nowadays are aware that there are people who prefer trackpads.
My opinion is that trackpads are now better than mice, this is a thread about using a mouse and all the software issues it entails. Rather than installing various complex software just use a trackpad that works.
Well, I disagree, I use both and vastly prefer the mouse for most work. And I’d assume that most people using mice nowadays to the point of going the trouble to seeking out configuration software
for it have similar preferences.
> Rather than installing various complex software just use a trackpad that works.
You’re implying that the mouse users in this thread are wrong and misguided. In reality they probably know very well why they prefer using mice.
Just a friendly reminder that input device drivers are among the most security sensitive piece of code you can imagine. Literally everything you do goes through them.
I think the discussion about AI-generated content is interesting. While I understand some find it distracting, I'd argue that what matters most is the substance of the project itself. OpenLogi seems to solve a real problem (local-first log management without telemetry), and the website effectively communicates its value proposition quickly. The install instructions are clear, screenshots are provided, and the config format is transparent. These practical aspects matter more than whether the copy was written by a human or assisted by AI. At the end of the day, open source projects benefit from any tool that helps authors communicate their work effectively, especially when English isn't their first language.
2 anecdotes about Logitech software:
I had a high-end webcam that flickered. There should be switch in the software to switch from 50hz to 60hz that'd fix it but it was nowhere to be found. After digging deeper I found that it was only available in English version of software. It was before macOS had Setting to set language per app, so I had to manually replace Polish bundle with English one through binary.
Another one: Has K810 keyboard that started in "FN-by-default" mode. K811, Mac version of said keyboard allowed for changing default setting just as K810 on Windows, but K810 on Mac - no dice. Support told me to shell out 200€ on Mac keyboard so I ended up writing small binary switcher [0] that would run after keyboard got connected [0].
[0]: https://github.com/exlee/k810_fkeys_mac
For Linux, there is https://github.com/pwr-Solaar/Solaar
But on another note, the genai content on the website is just so distracting and such a bummer. It sticks out like sore thumb.
> the genai content on the website is just so distracting and such a bummer
That's harsh. Consider English might not be the author's first language (I see Chinese on the screenshots). Just opening the site I get all the info I need from the text (local first, no account, no telemetry, that's great), install instructions are immediately visible, there are screenshots, even the config file format is one scroll away. This is a great landing page for an open source tool.
> Consider English might not be the author's first language
This is clearly LLM-written text, not something that the author asked an LLM to translate from a different language. Not sure how the author's first language is relevant.
The author may very well be working in Mandarin or something and asked it to create an english language explanation of the project. Then the LLM generated the text based on their request.
They could've written text in Mandarin and used an LLM (or any other translation tool) to translate it to English, which wouldn't have introduced the LLM writing style.
They didn't, so the reason isn't that English isn't their first language, it's that they didn't want to spend time writing text. In which case I don't understand how this is different from a native English speaker doing the same thing.
Who cares? Even if it’s LLM generated (which is not 100% sure, I’m pretty sure I could have written this description with bold keywords myself), the text is dense and easy to read. Rejecting LLM output without even thinking about the content doesn’t make any sense.
You are replying to a comment which stated:
> the genai content on the website is just so distracting and such a bummer. It sticks out like sore thumb.
The comment is fair and accurate. The vacuous marketing speak is tedious, unpleasant and risks undermining the technology it makes a flailing attempt to describe.
Your non-native English speaker excuse is neither fair nor accurate since an AI translation of a human-written Mandarin language text does not introduce the style of writing being criticised.
Not every open source project requires a grandiose marketing site littered with manipulative, cloying language. Let the project speak for itself.
It doesn't matter. The site is fine.
Only significant change I would make is have the top navbar not be transparent with body content underlaid beneath it, which makes things hard to read when the page is scrolled. And move some of the links at the very bottom of page like 'github' into the top navbar.
As LLM generated template web GUI go it's relatively inoffensive, at least it's easy to navigate and doesn't waste time with sliders, animated effects, etc. It's just a navbar across the top and then content.
As far as the page body content goes it seems like LLMs have taken a little bit too enthusiastically to an Apple style presentation of product features.
People really are so quick to point out LLM usage as some form of virtue-signalling.
It's fairly obvious that an LLM has been used to design the site, but it does the job and the site isn't the focus of the product.
It's not virtue signalling but it shows that if the author of said software (if there's one) didn't bother to spend time writing things on the website, there's a correlation that they wouldn't bother spending time writing code either.
And that's what I see first thing on the repo. Lots of LLM-style writing in the README, which makes me think if this is a vibecoded app, which looks like it.
This website still would have taken at least a week to make. It’s pretty nice for an open source project website.
Between no website and shiny but crappy LLM website, I’ll take the latter, and I wouldn’t wish another 2 weeks of unpaid copy writing on any open source dev.
You can be a seasoned engineer but making websites is still a major b**. The small tasks required to make it "presentable" site just compound, until you just don't even want to do it.
Thank you Lordy for LLMs because I am going to hurt myself if I ever have to design and wire another contact form.
One of the reasons why people just go "meh, whatever, good enough" and install wordpress, use some popular wordpress contact form. Have it give mail to a postfix daemon on same server that listens only on localhost and relays outbound via your own infra. Or similar. A base wordpress install is pretty hard to screw up if you don't start adding weird plugins to it, and it will auto-update itself by default. I can't even imagine taking the time now to do this by hand.
Okay, but how about a shiny LLM website but with human-written text that's actually nice to read and not some unedited AI output? That doesn't take a week.
Yes, it takes a month or two.
Depends on the project.
People manage to write 500 word essays in school in a few days just fine, but writing a website landing page suddenly takes two months?
According to wordcounter.net, this landing page has 850 words. Most of that is just LLM fluff that could easily be removed, but even if you want to keep the original size, to spend two months on this you have to be writing less than 15 words a day.
> People manage to write 500 word essays in school in a few days just fine, but writing a website landing page suddenly takes two months?
What the h... I mean, it's an opensource software to make Logitech's users life less miserable, and you are comparing that to the effort of a student writing an essay, where their only or main job during those days is writing the essay?
For some of us writing good text takes a lot of time and effort.
It's just a bit of text for a website that describes what a product does, what features it has, and maybe an FAQ. It shouldn't take you long. For something like this you can even start with LLM text and then rewrite it in your own words and it will sound much better .
Having had to edit the documentation from native English speakers in the past, rewriting "in their own words" made it unclear, way too detailed about unnecessary options, and badly formed sentences.
The average person cannot write good documentation (or website copy). It's an actual skill to learn how to phrase things, ensure that the documentation delivers the right level of detail to the different reader types etc.
As English writers, software developers make great programmers, not authors.
Perhaps you can offer your time to proofread the website?
If you never take the time, of course it will always be a lot of effort. But with experience it’ll take less time and effort.
That is true but maybe not the thing I want to work on, so much other things to spend my limited time on.
Then throw https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Signs_of_AI_writing into your context and call it a day. there is no excuse for not proof-reading what you expect others to read.
But isn’t that still AI-slop?
I think you'll find it's mostly effort.
Except "website made by LLM" almost invariably means the software was "written" by an LLM too, and thus is likely full of security vulnerabilities, bugs, and so on. It may also mean that github issues are being reviewed by an AI, which opens the door up to the AI to malicious prompting.
I think I strongly disagree with your first sentence. Strongly. I've worked with enough people with fine coding skills and terrible English to know that the two are not an uncommon combination. Last year, I worked with someone whose first language was something from China - no idea which flavour - and they would often pass their written comms through an LLM. I could tell when they had done so by the onset of sudden grammatical correctness. But I don't think they were doing this with the intention of deceiving, merely of communicating clearly and correctly.
Now, I often find Claude's idea of idiomatic prose to be a bit load-bearingly seam-hitting as it lands not this point, but THAT one, but it is probably better than something hacked out by a person who confuses tenses, cases, pronouns and when they can enverb a noun. So I tend towards giving people the benefit of the doubt on this.
Lastly, if you think LLM-written software is full of security vulnerabilities and bugs, I have terrible news for you about the state of human-written code. The fact that what we do is often better than nothing at all, is no big recommendation.
> I've worked with enough people with fine coding skills and terrible English
What about people with fine English and terrible coding skills?
What about people with both terrible English and terrible coding skills?
> Now, I often find Claude's idea of idiomatic prose to be a bit load-bearingly seam-hitting as it lands not this point, but THAT one, but it is probably better than something hacked out by a person who confuses tenses, cases, pronouns and when they can enverb a noun. So I tend towards giving people the benefit of the doubt on this.
Personally, I find AI writing as insufferable as anyone else (though Anthropic's is particularly bad, maybe just due to my familiarity with it), but I wouldn't judge individuals for using it to make communication more readable, rephrase what they mean etc. If anything, any difficulty in reading my prose would support that.
> Lastly, if you think LLM-written software is full of security vulnerabilities and bugs, I have terrible news for you about the state of human-written code. The fact that what we do is often better than nothing at all, is no big recommendation.
I guess a lot depends on how you use the LLMs (I bet horrible coding skills coincide with horribly lazy and problematic usage of LLMs for development too), but I wonder how humans actually stack up to the slop-machine when it comes to how good or bad the code they produce is on average, since I'm sure that SOTA model code by now tends towards the upper end of that.
In other words, if a person wants to limit themselves to avoiding LLM code over fears of it being bad, they would also have to avoid any any all code written by people that essentially produced the problematic training dataset, as well as any programmers with the same capabilities (or lack thereof). You'd basically have to avoid using a lot/most of the software out there if that's your quality standard.
Dumb question but its because I genuinely do not know better. What is the security risk of what is as far as i understand a mouse driver with config options?
For downloadable software there is the risk of a supply chain attack. The website is altered to provide a download with a malware-infected version of the software.
See the recent hack on CPU-Z: https://gist.github.com/N3mes1s/b5b0b96782b9f832819d2db7c668...
That's a problem wether AI is involved or not.
a mouse is an input device. most security challenges (passwords, etc.) are input via input devices. those are at a risk of being compromised. also clicks on an on-screen keyboard, etc. in fact, if u think about it, input device data (also know as telemetry - ironically, what we are trying to prevent in the first place by the logi app to do) security is a very serious potential attack vector.
Right you are, Ken. With the amount of new low-effort software we can expect to see over the next decade, taste becomes a hallmark.
Yeah even if the software is good there's just something sad about realizing you're reading AI generated text. Even if its proofread and factually correct it just comes across as cheap and low effort, moreso when the content gets duplicated in a pointless FAQ that just restates everything you just read
> Comes across cheap
Given this is open-source, have you considered contributing a more expensive-feeling landing page? Or, donating to finance the project?
I would rather it feel dev-cheap than corpo-cheap. Throw your MD doc into a basic CSS reset/theme, with a github and download link.
>Even if its proofread and factually correct it just comes across as cheap and low effort
How so?
Because it is cheap and low effort.
It indicates that the author likes to take shortcuts and avoid work.
Does he need to write his own HTML in notepad? Using any kind of template is a shortcut and avoiding work.
The best devs I ever worked with are the ones that liked to 'take shortcuts and avoid work'.
This is a pathetic take. 1) Life is short and shortcuts and avoiding work are not inherently the wrong path to take. 2) Is the code you've almost certainly had an LLM write for you in the past a sign that you have low moral character and let yourself down by taking shortcuts and avoiding work too?
It just feels hollow and cheap.
The FAQ technique is LLM/SEO crumbs because people usually search for questions, if you have the exact likely question text that maps to user's search you're more likely to rank. It's unfortunate but it works, like open mouth YouTube thumbnails.
It’s still hollow and cheap. I closed those sites immediately even before LLMs. You need to pay me to waste my time, not the other way around. Even if that’s using your then not-so-free app.
That’s not feedback, just a non-constructive opinion. As someone else wrote above, if you’re so precious about it then help out the devs of the project and submit design PRs.
This is absurd. No one has an obligation to help anyone nor do they owe you any standard of help. Opinion on quality of output is constructive to the wise and an opportunity to scream "If you can do better than do it" for the small minded.
Nothing wrong with the AI website but it suggests the code is AI too.
Nothing wrong with AI code either but it suggests the project may have been built in 2 weeks, has no community and low likelihood of ongoing maintenance.
So now overall instead of a flashy website I think the best signal of quality is a boring GitHub README and several months of commit activity, lots of merged PRs.
How much ongoing maintenance and community do you need around a mouse configuration utility? If it works for your current mouse, cool. If, down the road, it breaks on a windows update, you get a new mouse, etc; stop using it and you’ll get a full refund for what you paid.
Yeah i agree, the main problema with ai building (wether back end or front end) is that it leaves a lot of holes behind, that at some point really need to be fixex
Before AI you'd be saying it's a great website for a free and open source app.
I reads like a corporate driver page. I'd much prefer a simple git repo with a readme.md
The GitHub repo is literally one click away, the GitHub link is at the top right as usual
Good.
Still, I see that page and I think 'Logitech Corporate driver software'. Maybe that's the intention? But it makes me start slightly suspicious.
A "nice site" was a proxy metric for "thoughtful competence". It was always flawed, but LLMs put the final nail in that particular coffin.
bellard.org style text-only, get-to-the-point-please content will the way forwards. "browsers" can then style and rewrite it till the cows come home - with fancy slideshows, LLMisms, carrousels, the works - or not and nobody will be worse off.
The way we structure content these days is insane. Separate content from presentation, please.
It seems the project is actually aware of this:
> Quit Logi Options+ before launching: the two fight over HID++ access, and only one app can own a receiver at a time. On Linux, the same applies to Solaar.
Solaar is fantastic software. Not worth replacing with slop even if the slop looks shiny.
This support Windows and macOS in addition to Linux. I'm not in a hurry to disrupt things on my Linux machine, but I might just have to try this on the other platforms.
While it does look extremely likely that AI is used for the copy writing, and probably for some of the code maintenance, I'm not convinced that this is being vibe coded.
Yeah, I have been using Solaar for many years now, solid piece of software.
Shocking that in this time and age, a simple peripheral like a mouse still needs a dedicated piece of software to be installed. In my Linux boxes, I just plug in a standard mouse and get the standard functions. I think the device driver should know about the low-level interface to the mouse: know how it points, what buttons, scroll wheels, and other inputs it may have, etc. Then the OS would process it like any mouse. If you need to connect some buttons to specific actions, that could be handled by a user-level program running on the machine that could know how to do those actions. But that level should be far removed from knowing what brand (or type) of input device you are using.
Of course producers like Logitech want you to install their own thing, so as to make it harder for you to switch to other brands of hardware, but an open system like Linux should not play along with that.
Of course the Logitech mouse can be plugged and will just work without installation. The software allows to customize buttons, macros, DPI ranges, lights, etc. Still sucks, but it's not really needed to make it work or use it.
Simple mouses have simple interfaces and its functions are built into the OS. These mouses are a little bit beyond simple. These are ten button interfaces. So there is the default programming. And custom programming. The software is for custom programming.
Another alternative is a utility called xmouse.
Not long ago mouses came with a paper manua, a CD with drivers, and if you we're paying top dollar, a desktop application that would let you set defaults for the entire OS for the one or two extra buttons you used to get.
> In my Linux boxes, I just plug in a standard mouse and get the standard functions.
That'll work with Logitech mice too. It's only for all the extra buttons and functions that you need their software.
Great effort, thanks for that.
But do we still trust the open source software that is created now everything is vibe coded?
Recently there was a thread about Chatto [1], a Slack replacement completely vibe coded by one person. It works and looks nice. But looking at the code, I wouldn’t trust any of my personal information to it. It’s just tousands of lines of skills and vague instructions. It seems that trust in OSS is eroding and big SaaS might win here because they have the reputation.
[1] https://github.com/chattocorp/chatto
So you trusted 22-year-old coffee junkies copying and pasting from stack overflow 10 years ago but when a language model does it it's suddenly offensive? We should be instead celebrating how we have a mini software company at our fingertips ready to fix the broken hobbyist shit we've never had time for. OpenLogi is a perfect example of this use case and that it's open source makes it more trustworthy not less.
Now if only there was one for Razer.
I don't think stackoverflow contains code to integrate a keylogger in a mouse driver. Copy-paste isn't that bad. Most of the (coding) LLMs however probably do know how to do that. They enable script kiddies to make more dangerous tools. So yes, vibe coding is a danger.
> So yes, vibe coding is a danger.
Running code is dangerous. I don't really see how its provenance matters: you should not run code you don't trust, period.
> you should not run code you don't trust, period.
This reduces to "you should not use a computer, period." No-one can audit all the code they run daily.
Where did I say you should audit all the code you run daily?
Not sure if you're being manipulative on purpose or if you genuinely did not understand my point. I was talking about "trust", which is a whole concept in itself.
I judge it on a case-by-case basis by just looking at a few recent commits and the feel of clicking a few files in the repo. For OpenLogi I get the wrong type of vibe code vibes and at the very least that means the project might become an unmaintainable mess in a year and that means I don't want to come to rely on it. At worst it means security vulnerabilities.
That being said: I wouldn't really trust SaaS to not be vibe-coded either. The only difference there is that SaaS likely has a financial incentive to stay maintainable so you could argue that helps.
Yeah but imagine how much more powerful AI will be by then. Command it to refactor it's sloppy code.
You shouldn't trust open source software because it is open source. You should trust open source software because it has been audited, and only when it has been audited by people you trust (it may be yourself).
Whether it's vibe-coded or not doesn't change that. If it is vibe-coded and unreadable, how is it different from manually-written and unreadable? If it is vibe-coded and readable, how is it different from manually-written and readable?
Judge the code by its quality, not by its provenance.
If I was going to make a keylogger this is pretty much how I'd do it - no need to sneak an application onto a user's machine to capture keystrokes when they'd willingly install it because it's better than the terrible official software.
I hate Options+ as much as the next guy - but don't have the time / technical knowledge to audit thoroughly enough to establish trust in this.
I'm nearing the replacement point on my current MX Master - so is there a better alternative to Logitech?
What makes you think big SaaS is not vibecoded?
What makes you think we trust big SaaS :-P
I believe it varies; since it's merely a productivity tool, why not use it? However, if it's essential software that your business relies on, probably not.
Ask your AI of choice to audit the codebase.
This is an underappreciated possibility that opened up. It now becomes at least viable to thoroughly inspect large code bases. It's not easy and never will be, but now we're not limited to the amound of literal eyeballs available.
Indeed. I've been doing it a lot.
Be careful of prompt injection. Some people think nothing of adding harmful instructions to their repositories. Sol and Opus seem to be smart enough not to fall for it, but I don't know about other models.
> because they have the reputation.
reputation of what? sucking your soul dry?
> But do we still trust the open source software that is created now everything is vibe coded?
If I think tool/software would be useful I throw GLM 5.2 (now 5.3) at it and ask to do an audit ;-)
I don't see the issue. The beauty of OSS is that you can audit the code yourself and evaluate it according to your standards.
Do you trust all OSS repos coded before 2024? AI-generated code is no different than code written by a human with different levels of seniority, different levels of focus, or different levels of discipline. A human is perfectly capable of generating spaghetti code too.
On the other hand, it's also much less effort to do at least some rudimentary review.
Or make a fork with only the minimim set of parts that your agent cherry picks.
write code by hand then
great effort ? bro just sniff the traffic and feed into Claude.
> But do we still trust the open source software that is created now everything is vibe coded?
I guess my question is, why would you trust it when it is not vibe coded?
My suggestion is, have an AI review the code for you.
Code is simply math. It either works or it does not. Does your calculator work? Then use it. Does your AI agent of choice produce code that works? Then use it.
Or don't. It's up to you. You're as free to walk away as you are to embrace what's been made here.
This is dangerous advice on so many levels.
“Is math” and “Either works or not” is only true with formal specifications and formal verification, which dwarfs the cost of producing said software.
Math isn’t known to rm -rf your drive or exfiltrate your private keys and secrets
Code is, but running application aren't "math". They have side effects - like uploading your private keys to hostile servers - which "math" conveniently ignores.
> It either works or it does not.
It also matters how it works.
This is a bit of an uncharitable take. "It either works or it does not" is an oversimplification when you consider that code often doesn't work in the way it was intended - that's what bugs are. Are vibe coded apps inherently more buggy? Not necessarily. But the I'd argue there's more surface in a vibe coded app that requires blind trust.
Not really, something can work and be full of security holes.
Good to see open source alternatives to the awful Logitech software. I only realized how bad the Logitech software is after switching from a G502 with on-board memory to an MX Master mouse that does not have on-board memory and needs to have the app constantly running in the background to use the gestures. Personally I've been using BetterMouse on macOS with my MX Master, although it's not open source.
https://github.com/pwr-Solaar/Solaar has been around for quite some time and works well.
In case it’s not known, Logitech does offer an offline version of Options+ meant for air gapped and more secured systems:
https://support.logi.com/hc/change_language/en-in?return_to=...
Logitech's offline installer is 1.2GB. This application's installer is 15.3MB.
You want "Onboard Memory Manager", which is 12 megs.
That only works with "G" brand gaming devices. Their entire MX line does not allow you to store customizations in onboard memory.
I have a "G" series 512 keyboard. And it seemingly can't save anything into the memory (on windows I had to use the logitech's bloatware). And the absolute worst part is that it is set to RGB colors moving around by default, so I've been running openrgb every OS boot to set the lights to a neutral, non-flashing, much much less intensive color. Happy to see alternatives to that.
This is so nuts. It’s literally a multi device mouse - supports 3 bluetooth connections in memory, but I need to install the options app on every single pc/mac I want to use it on. Nuts!
Seems nuts that you would go through the trouble of air gapping a system then use a Bluetooth keyboard.
I maintain a homebrew tap for the offline Options+: https://github.com/gohanlon/homebrew-tap
The tap includes a GH action to track upstream releases (as long as I notice the PR!). Also, the offline version only compensates for some of the issues with Options+.
It's a sad state of affairs that a mouse settings program isn't 'offline' by default. Except maybe an update check it has zero needs to be online.
Cool project, but I hate how every new site has this obviously LLM generated copy :( I feel like most people who use it for their copy don’t realize how obvious it is.
Oh it’s not just the site—the app is obviously LLM generated too and feels like it. I gave up and went back to Mos within 20 minutes.
At this point we should be sharing prompts not code for solutions like OpenLogi. Reverse engineering many things can typically be one-shotted (ignoring things like.. capturing a pcap or whatever to aid the effort). Let others add their own taste to the solution.
Isn't it wasteful to have everyone go off and remake the same software with slightly different bugs in it instead of one that fixes almost all of the bugs
Terribly wasteful, yes, though perhaps if the idea caught on the major labs could stand some chance of long-term profitability.
Seriously, I wonder how many tokens are generated (wasted) every day on someone recreating another agent memory, context management, code graph, etc.
I can’t wait until Qwen 4.5 27B or Gemma 5.
It then becomes a roll of the dice if someone ends up with working software.
Please no, I couldn’t care about your prompts, there is nothing special about them. Anyone can look at the generated artifact and reverse engineer their own prompt in no time
Does it matter? People get caught up on LLM this and sure, a professional beats an LLM currently but I'd rather read some well written LLM text over some poorly written human effort
If it matters is subjective. But personally I stop reading when I notice it’s AI text because there is never anything in it worth reading. It’s just a prompt expanded in to paragraphs of filler text.
This kind of tool doesn’t need a whole Apple style marketing page to sell you on it.
It also signals effort to me, when I see vibeslop text I know the project most likely is a one shot weekend project full of issues which won’t be resolved. I’ve seen good examples of AI use in open source, and those projects write the readme and website copy without AI.
> I'd rather read some well written LLM text over some poorly written human effort
I think it depends a bit what's meant by "poorly" but I don't think I share that preference at all.
I would 100% rather read a developers copy explaining why they wanted to build something and what they think is useful about it, even if it isn't particularly polished.
As a comparison, LLM generated "marketing schlock" is polished, but it's normally pretty empty and doesn't convey much of it's value.
As an example, I use lazygit (a TUI git interface) - at least at the time I looked at it, the main intro was a youtube video of the developer talking through the features. It wasn't polished at all, but it did a great job of convincing me that lazygit was a project with a lot of love and thought put into it.
Your LLM text is obviously not well written if we spot it after 2 seconds. I won’t read it, doesn’t matter how beautiful it is, it’s just pure cringe, I notice, roll my eyes, close the tab. Please give me the poorly written human effort. Is it really that hard to spend 10minutes reading what you produced to see if that feels genuine?
It matters to me because I notice and I hate it.
I read plenty of not-obviously-AI-generated text and I much prefer doing that, even if it’s not from a professional.
It’s not about the quality of the text itself. If Claude was one person with a human level of output, Claude would probably be considered decent at writing.
But when I have to read the same genre of slop on 1 million different sites it gets really really annoying imo.
> I'd rather read some well written LLM text over some poorly written human effort
I could not disagree more.
People realize, but writing good technical prose is hard and a separate skill.
I don’t think it’s that hard; it just takes effort. And the effort is well worth it.
It's not that hard if you put in the effort and practice.
But if you don't want to and still want to use an LLM, there are low-bar choices you can make (using a technical writing skill, using ASD-STE100 Simplified Technical English, choosing your audience, proofreading at the end with human eyes to make sure it makes sense and doesn't repeat itself uselessly).
I think it shows either a) low respect or consideration for your audience or yourself, or b) laziness.
Trust yourself to write even if it's bad. At least it's human.
What is the point of spending so much effort if some people are still going to call it LLM slop?
Huh? Bad human writers don’t write like LLMs, at all.
Most worthwhile things are hard without a bit of practice.
There's good technical prose on the site? It's all just fluff marketing that adds nothing.
> writing good technical prose is hard and a separate skill.
Hard things are hard. They’re not easy. But they’re worth it.
it's pretty much "load bearing" at this point.
It's worth stating plainly: It's not just a common occurrence, it's a load bearing feature of modern tech writing. Full stop.
Well that was a waste of time. Tried this for my MX 3:
- The DPI slider did nothing most of the time, but sometimes the cursor movement changed when clicking a button or switching windows.
- No matter what I chose, the scroll wheel was stuck at absolute maximum sensitivity setting scrolling about a thousand lines per ratchet click. There was also no way to disable the "smart" switch to freewheel spinning.
- For some reason, tapping the thumb wheel triggered Task View. Tapping the thumb wheel isn't even listed as an interaction so no way to change or disable this.
Love the idea of an "open" version of Logi options, but this is just terribly executed. Can't state anything about the code but the bewildering behavior and weird bugs definitely smelled like vibe slop.
Good morning HN. Hope you're enjoying your daily dose of claudeslop app.
See you all tomorrow when we do it all over again.
You use a coding agent to make and app? Straight to jail. Language server? Jail. Syntax highlighting? Believe it or not, jail.
Im reading the comments here and most of them are regarding what AI did, what AI didnt and not much about the apps functionality, which is lameeee
That's because - given the flashy page and branding and all - it's irrelevant.
The thing is not about code or solving a problem, and we also shouldn't be pretending that it is, because that is what slop, grifters and businesspeople bank on.
Also, you can be sure that the features that do exist are half-baked at best, given that any person with eyes can see that the priorities lie elsewhere.
Yes, that is what I meant.
Go use echo to write your code, otherwise you're not a real coder.
https://xkcd.com/378/
I think this sentiment deserves its own serious discussion. It probably won't happen for another few years when the emotions and defensiveness settle, but there's a separate problem happening from quality. Quantity is its own problem. Whether or not any of these hourly new product announcements are any good, nobody can possibly try 24 different pieces of software a day, let alone switch to actually using them. So all we get are superficial heuristic analyses basically amounting to either "cool, this looks vaguely similar to something I might want" or "AI;DR."
Agentic coding will do for indie software what dating apps did for human relationships. Animal brains are not equipped to deal with having this much choice.
Tbf, in this case, it flags based on something we had before AI as well.
Open<Brand> + SEO on Steroids webpage is usually misaligned with the user. That didn't really change. The only thing that did change is that producing this slop has gotten much much cheaper.
What is true though is that eventually, even the most gullible person will have been exposed to this so much, even they will finally manage to stop their hijacked justice reflex from twitching and defending garbage against their own best interest.
So that's a positive.
It's not open source but I have to shout out Steermouse which has been replacing Logitech's awful Mac software for ~25 years
https://www.plentycom.jp/en/steermouse/download.php
I've been a trackpad proponent for years, but with Steermouse I've been able to dial in my MX Master so perfectly that I find myself missing it when I travel.
What really took it to the next level for me were adding chord mappings. For example I can hold right mouse button + scroll the thumb wheel to adjust volume. So convenient!
This is my favorite. It Just Works with every mouse I throw at it and supports a ludicrous amount of button customization.
Not being open source is the thing that the program in the article fixes. You want the goal of the software-writer to be producing a good tool, not using the software as a means to turn a profit. That's how you get the turd being replaced by the tool in the article
Looks like someone stole LinearMouse's code and vibed it better . https://linearmouse.app/zh-CN/
The code is right here: https://github.com/AprilNEA/OpenLogi
What makes you say this is stolen from LinearMouse?
i can see the resemblence and that's what separates the more marketable app.
You can't vibe things better. You vibe them shinny, but often make them worst.
Sure you can. Code vibed with a SOTA model is better than mean programmer output, has been for at least a good year now.
It is possible that your impression of mean is actually well bellow mean. SOTA models are still as good as the programmer using them, at best.
I have a sneaking suspicion that if everyone proffering an LLM coding opinion stated their languages and area of focus/expertise we’d all be in a lot more agreement about the output…
Example 1: “as a JavaScript front-end developer working with React and node, I think LLMs save 500 hours a week and are better than anyone on our team.” <— easy to believe
Example 2: “as a backend Erlang developer working on life-critical systems the inconsistent output makes LLMs dangerous and the code is tidy but terrible at scale.” <— fully congruent with the first example
Mm.
As an iOS developer, I have yet to see two different teams agree on best practices, architecture, or code style, and the only reason I've seen anyone agree on UI frameworks is that I've been in slightly more teams/seen more ads than there even are widely-used UI frameworks; and despite all the big promises in the job adverts, 95% of the work has been to take someone else's existing UI design and connect it to someone else's existing API.
LLMs fit right in.
(Unlike me: I'm burned out by iOS and LLMs came at exactly the right time).
Yeah, that's what I think every time I read some discussion online about AI coding assistants. Programming is such a wide field with presence in so many different industries, with all sorts of languages and environments, and many people seem to forget that not everything is webdev. You see one person saying they barely need to code by hand anymore and another who can't believe that because their experience has been the complete opposite, when they're probably both right.
Even Example 1 works in a much narrower scope, in that you need to have a decent working setup and all the rails like a good AGENTS file and so on.
The point is that "Vibing" still does not produce worthy output.
Even the screenshot in the readme has a button in Chinese in a sea of english.
For a while now BetterTouchTool [0] supports Logitech mice [1]. It's paid, but it's absolutely worth its price. It's super powerful and you can do all kinds of funky stuff with it, not only mouse related. I would suggest looking into it if you want more advanced features, I've been a very happy user for many years now.
[0] https://folivora.ai
[1] https://docs.folivora.ai/docs/normal-mouse/logitech
I'm still quite often amazed by BTT's capabilities, for example right now by the fact that they bothered to implement Logitech's HID++ protocol.
There's also BetterMouse for macOS. I use it with a Logitech mouse and it works very well. https://better-mouse.com/
I'm curious if OpenLogi might be better. Despite the vibecoding accusations here, it has 55 contributors, is open source and seems well designed.
I used to use it (better mouse) before BTT added Logitech support - but wasn't really happy with it. Every single update changed something, mostly my cursor speed in some small, but sufficiently noticeable way and I had to adjust it every time, which was super annoying.
At some point my settings kept getting lost every time my mac went to sleep, and I had to restart the app all the time. I messaged the developer, but never received any response or acknowledgement and I just dropped it. It's a pity, because I did like it for a period of time while I was initially using it.
BetterTouchTool is on my list of things to look into for a long time.
Was not aware it is even possible to replace the shitty logitech surveillance software. thanks for the tip!
Can you give maybe an example of a `funky stuff` for the mouse, like those touchpad gestures? i cant think of any, just to get an idea
The one thing I use the most, and how I found it in the first place is that it allows me to combine key presses with mouse gestures/movements. In particular it allows me to move/resize the windows under the cursor just by pressing a key combination and moving my mouse. Many many years ago I used to use AutoHotkey on Windows for this functionality and was missing it when I switched to Mac.
Another thing I've configured is scrolling through a key press and dragging the mouse. Or opening a floating menu by using the thumb button on my MX Master3.
And that's only mouse functions, I have a bunch of other shortcuts/remappings/automations, many of which run only for specific apps.
Have a look in the forum - it's a gold mine and a lot of people have shared their presets.
I've had a paid licence for it for many years but I have ended up shying away from using it because the UI is just so cumbersome. An incredibly powerful piece of software though.
I haven't tried the LLM approach recommended in the sibling comment, and I agree that the UI is quite cumbersome. Yet, once it clicks, it's still not super straightforward, but it allows for quickly implementing whatever one needs. I guess the UI complexity comes with its extremely powerful capabilities.
Get an LLM to generate a preset for what you want - it's ultimately driven by a json config. There are quite a few presets in the forum as well for various functions
Was there any AI used in either the website or the code itself? It looks like a product of AI and not man-made.
Keychron just uses a web interface to adjust mouse settings, why does it even need an app?
There’s also Piper[1], which I’ve been using for my Logitech G502 wireless gaming mouse. It predates the AI era.
[1] https://github.com/libratbag/piper
Last time I checked the underlying daemon, libratbag, didn't have support for the G502X wireless mouse and although there were Issues and Pull Requests open, no movement had been made towards getting those in.
I tried to switch to Mouser, but it leaked memory like crazy, taking sometimes tens of GB of RAM so I just vibed a replacement based on my very specific needs.
It takes 3.5MB of RAM currently.
Mouser is so bad at leaking memory i had to go back to Logi Options+ on my Mac...
Love my Logitech mouse, keyboard, and webcam. Their software not in the same league as their hardware.
I once heard a story about an old Logitech webcam driver in windows. Once it was installed, it would always scan for the webcam and if it wasn’t detected it would write to an error log. So if you set up the webcam once and then got rid of it without uninstalling the driver it would always dump logs upon logs. Eventually a user had their entire disk space filled and when they dug into it they found a single tens or hundreds of GB log file. Uninstalling the driver fixed it.
You love having to replace your mouse regularly because Logitech intentionally uses shit switches to force people to keep buying their products?
Wait there’s a mouse that requires an account?
I’ve been using just Linux and Mac long enough to not know this, and I’m glad.
One of the main features of Logi Options + is the plugins which this application doesn't seem to support; you can load it locally or from their marketplace[1].
I myself have an accessibility related plugin to make clicking easier [2] built using their Logi Actions SDK. It finds the clickable elements near the cursor and displays them in the Actions Ring and the LCD keypad. If you have the Logi Dialpad then you can have a complete mouse free workflow with Access Ring.
[1] https://marketplace.logi.com/plugins/
[2] https://abishekmuthian.com/pages/access-ring/
I'm always terrified of Bluetooth mice. I've never seen one with the same low latency as a USB mouse. The difference is sometimes subtle, but it's there.
Typically the wireless mice connect over noon-bluetooth wireless protocols and offer bluetooth as fallback, if at all.
Click-to-screen latency is a combination of reporting rate, polling rate and latency within the software stack. Default USB HID polling rate is 125Hz so if you don't do anything extra on top this is what you get anyway. Even higher grade "office" mice offer higher reporting rates than that, "gaming" mice can easily be 1 kHz.
I always thought this is a rule of thumb, but then I learned that wireless gamepads for popular consoles (back then it was PS3/PS4 era) don't really follow that pattern. I came across multiple tests where older wireless PS controllers and xbox controllers were consistently more responsive in practice.
For modern ones there are some cool posts like this one [1], where most of the time there "were no statistically significant difference", or even wireless was more responsive.
Gamepads always impressed me - they can deliver insanely good response times while streaming high quality audio with no lag. I never found other BT accessories for phones/computers that were even close to that smooth experience.
[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/PS5/comments/m020e3/dualsense_wired...
For pro gaming perhaps the difference would make the slightest difference. For casuals, let alone office workers, the difference is 0 (writing this with a mx master 4 next to me).
Saying this as someone who has tried dozens of mice in my life. Last corded-one, bought for my son yesterday (razer cobra minecraft edition). I don't think I'd be able to tell the difference between wired and wireless in a blind test.
or you can just use wifi dongle one
there is no reason not to, even pro player in esports is using wireless mouse
the technology is there even for top 1%
Dongles are indeed not perceivably different than wired in principle. However, you may have more latency variability, or even unstable connectivity, depending on what adjacent usb ports are doing, due to interference [0].
I have had cases where dongles were practically unusable in my setup, up to completely losing connectivity when transferring data through an adjacent port.
[0] https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/content-details/8416...
never happen to me in this year
maybe in 2012 as paper suggest, also millions of gamer also use these today
there is exist mouse gaming that have 4k,8k polling rate right now
You also want to have Nordic MCU specifically
I have had issues with an otherwise decent 2022 computer, had to arrange usb connections in specific ways to avoid brief connectivity drops. It did not happen all the time, but it did happen. But the worst problems were older ones.
USB ports have probably better shielding nowadays. But even so, the protocols and radio frequency ranges are still the same, so if I do not see a specific test on that (measuring latency distribution while adjacent port busy) I would not trust it if latency was important, even if it "feels" the same. And not all of us have professional gaming equipment or otherwise of much better quality.
If adjacent ports are not busy there should not be an issue nowadays, probably.
I always hated their big "suite" app and used the onboard memory manager app. At least it wasn't razer synapse
Nice!
I'm not sure this supports G502 as it's supposed to be controlled by Logitech G HUB.
Anyway, if you want a CLI replacement for G HUB, I played a bit with opengcontrol [1] to support my new G502 using Claude Code. I wrote a short blog post about it as well [2]. I even got a battery indicator for my menu bar.
[1]: https://github.com/kasik96/opengcontrol
[2]: https://louisabraham.github.io/articles/clawd-grip
Very basic flow of adding a device connected via Bluetooth seems broken. Would love this to work but think it needs a few more months development.
I tried it for about a month, but I was having several issues whereby the scroll direction kept inverting, the thumb button not sticking to its program, and smartshift not triggering when scrolling. In the end I regrettably went back to logi options+.
How is this better or different than Solaar?
If the device renderings are fetched from assets.openlogi.org, it's technically not telemetry free, though I guess we can trust the author to not track every call?
Before clicking, I thought this might be a reverse engineering attempt of the Logitech Harmony series of universal remotes, which have been discontinued but do still work, albeit cloud tethered for updates. There’s still a strong demand for this in the home automation space, if you read forums on the topic. Oh well, hopefully there’s a few more years in my Harmony Hub and Elite.
If you’re going to support Linux, at least offer a distro-agnostic format like AppImage instead of only providing a `.deb` package.
This is awesome! Thank you so much for great work! I love it, I wasn't even aware of the actions ring! Off-topic - does anyone know if something like this exists for Keychron keyboards?
Does something like this exists for the keyboards too? (have one of those in its box due to bad software...)
- stupid question: what exactly does this do and why do I need it?
Logitech mice and keyboards have extra features that the OS would consider non-standard; you can customize a lot of behaviors as well as map extra buttons to specific actions. For some reason, Logitech decided not to store customization settings on-device so there is a background daemon that must run on the host. Also inexplicably, it is an electron app with a 600MB install footprint requiring online connectivity (apparently there's also an offline version, weighing in at 1.2GB). Also not available on Linux.
> Also inexplicably, it is an electron app
No need to be modest! You can explain it!
You usually don’t _need_ it but there are a couple things you can’t do without it. Pairing a mouse/kb to their usb receiver for example is not possible without it.
The latest LogiOptions plus is a nightmare and I was really happy to see this. However, looking at comments I have now found one more alternative which I had not heard of. Thanks HN. I also have installed karabiner elements for some of the mouse remapping.
How comfortable is using mouse in Mac?
Sometime ago when I tried using mouse, it felt unnatural in Mac OS. No pinch to zoom, no changing desktops by swiping with multitouch and so on.
I use the Master MX 3s specifically because of the "gestures" button, it was mandatory for me to replace using the trackpad. It's basically a thumb button you can press and combine with a mouse gesture to do the same thing as finger gestures on the trackpad. I mainly use the gestures left/right (to switch between full screen apps/main dektop) and up (mission control) but it's all configurable. It also has an horizontal scroll wheel that's very useful when using Excel or DB viewers.
I much prefer a mouse (I use the MX Vertical) to a trackpad for long periods of time at my desk.
Cmd+Scroll for zoom in/out, Ctrl+Left/Right arrows to switch spaces. It's not a fun as the trackpad, but those are things i don't do that often.
Finally. I've been stuck with my onboard selections for a year now due to lack of motivation to deal with windows. Definitely gonna be checking this out.
Never heard of Logitech options, have just had G Hub installed for ages (and had a huge number of problems with it on MacOS when I first got the G502 lightspeed 3y ago).
Looks like this is for the "Logi" high end office series. They use different software for some reason, I guess Logitech thinks their customers don't want to see anything gaming related in their app because it looks unprofessional.
I've been using Mouser but it keeps crashing on MacOS 27 beta for me and at 500MB+ of memory use it appears to be approaching the official app's heaviness...
So this appeared at just the right moment for me, thanks!
Name leaves me optimistic it could support keyboards in future
This is different from the Mouser open source app for Logitech?
The header doesn't fit on mobile. Teach your agent to use Playwright MCP.
i always just used input remapper on linux
Fast download for me. But immediately denied. Doesn't run on Mac intel hardware.
Well... yeah, at this point you can stop expecting pre-build binaries of new softwares for pre-ARM Macs
In case author is here, Under resources tab at the footer, Introduction anchor is not in english
life saver. still remember the days when damn options+ update makes all the master 3 broken on the internet.
AI;DR (AI; Didn’t Read)
Not used a mouse for years, trackpad on 15 MacBook M4 Air is 100x better for my type of work.
Always this type of guy will spawn in any HN thread > Logitech Mouse software > bUt I dOnT usE mOusE foR yEArs
Not allowed an opinion what is this The Soviet Union?
That you haven’t used a mouse for years is (presumably) a fact, not an opinion. But what’s your point in stating that in this thread? Obviously mouse users nowadays are aware that there are people who prefer trackpads.
My opinion is that trackpads are now better than mice, this is a thread about using a mouse and all the software issues it entails. Rather than installing various complex software just use a trackpad that works.
Well, I disagree, I use both and vastly prefer the mouse for most work. And I’d assume that most people using mice nowadays to the point of going the trouble to seeking out configuration software for it have similar preferences.
> Rather than installing various complex software just use a trackpad that works.
You’re implying that the mouse users in this thread are wrong and misguided. In reality they probably know very well why they prefer using mice.
Just a friendly reminder that input device drivers are among the most security sensitive piece of code you can imagine. Literally everything you do goes through them.
I've always been a fan of BetterMouse: https://better-mouse.com/
Either way, anything that isn't the stock Logitech software is going to be an improvement.
generic ai landing page = close the tab
Slop-ish site but the live diagram is neat!
Fuck I needed this so bad
Fuck the clunky bloaty official Logi drivers/apps
justneed this for anker mouse
cant stop the slop
Nice job on the app and the website. It looks really good.
I think the discussion about AI-generated content is interesting. While I understand some find it distracting, I'd argue that what matters most is the substance of the project itself. OpenLogi seems to solve a real problem (local-first log management without telemetry), and the website effectively communicates its value proposition quickly. The install instructions are clear, screenshots are provided, and the config format is transparent. These practical aspects matter more than whether the copy was written by a human or assisted by AI. At the end of the day, open source projects benefit from any tool that helps authors communicate their work effectively, especially when English isn't their first language.