While we're dealing with the same issue at work, I sometimes still wonder exactly who these scrapers are. OpenAI, Google, Anthropic and others are normally fairly well behaved (Minus Anthropic attempting to hide behind a browser-for-hire company). Mostly you can get IP range and user-agents for the large players, while it problems mostly stem from bots pretending to be Chrome.
Our largest offenders seems to be mostly limited to South-East Asia, so probably mostly Chinese AI projects, but that's speculation. I also don't recall ever seeing Grok IP ranges or a specific Grok UA, but that doesn't mean that they're hiding, perhaps they're just not interested.
One of the defining characteristics of AI turned out to be utter and profound facelessness. The scraping, the data centers, the slop content, it's like it all comes from thin air. Nobody is talking about who is really doing all this or why, because it's always just coming from... somewhere else outside of our place.
Well, some websites claimed China is behind it, which could make sense (I would not know either way). At the same time, though, I kind of doubt your carte blanche here for all those companies. Why would you think none of them are responsible for the AI slop spam?
> Our largest offenders seems to be mostly limited to South-East Asia, so probably mostly Chinese AI projects, but that's speculation
Ok. So you also don't know. Well, I don't know either, but I don't make a speculation by claiming x, y, and z companies to be exempt. In my book they are all responsible.
We see constant abuse from the Tencent ASN/associated ACE ASN, and I've memorized the china169 backbone asn as AS4837 because of thr nonstop crawlers splattered across their network ranges. It's not possible to ID the operator running the crawlers running from these networks but there's a clear signal of the origin of some of these entities.
Are we assuming that this is the companies themselves scraping data from training or is this "agents" acting on behalf of users? Nowadays every major chat UI (ChatGPT, Claude etc) has a "tool" that allows LLM to load web pages, so it must generate some traffic.
After a decade and half we had to restrict our public side and reorganize our old TED content because scrappers were really hungry for assorted captioned videos. If you have anything of value for training you get eaten alive if you stick out, it's like wearing short pants in the summer tundra.
It's going to change a lot the internet we knew, unless somehow we managed to agree on a common high quality dataset repository.
It is time for micropayments integrated in the browser. Pay 5 cents to access each bug report. Not fun, it shouldn't be like this, but better than not having a bugtracker at all.
Not sure it works, isn't it already like that if you have the cursed javascript-only pages? It's basically proof of work to access their content (and if you are scrapping en masse you likely also need some LLM getting involved)
and do you happen to know a zero friction payment system that works internationally like the Internet itself does? because I promise you that unless you already have a captive audience, even a minuscule amount of friction to access your service will cost you an overwhelming percentage of organic human visitors.
Something like Chaum's blind-signature based ecash, or GNU Taler would be ideal in terms of efficiency, but it's still centralized in distribution. Freenet currently uses something like this.
Another option I was thinking of would be a pretty inflationary (or demurrage) cryptocurrency in which you have some sort of RandomX or other CPU-bound PoW. A web server could act as a mining pool and use mining shares interchangibly with micropayments.
You could do this mining-share method with Monero right now, it's just that you have higher transaction size in Monero and no real analogue to Bitcoin's LN-based microtransactions. Also you would want the cryptocurrency to be more inflationary (or demurrage-based) to promote usage.
Monero's FCMP++ lays some groundwork for payment channels, but it still lacks the nessisary timelocks. Also there was DLSAG which could have enabled payment channels I think, but it's no longer relevant. I also insist that you would need to change the tokenomics to favor greater inflation (maybe you could make coinbase scale linearly with hashrate?), otherwise the miner reward would be economicially insufficient.
Friction-free is a big ask. Brave tried something a while back with their Brave Payments, but of course no one trusts them and it’s not going anywhere.
Frictionless micropayments is THE business opportunity dangling here. I'm so disappointed that the Bitcoin bros never made it easy and fast to use Bitcoin for peer to peer micropayments.
Re audience, the audience for Gentoo bugzilla went just to zero. If even 1% of the current bugzilla users would use the micropayments, that's literally infinitely more organic human visitors than today.
How many pages does the average software developer visit everyday? 1.000? Price at 0.001 per load and it’ll be completely impractical for crawlers but super cheap for the average connected human on earth.
Hedgewars had to lock down its bugzilla and repo too, for the exact same reason. So far the really simple method used (basic auth with the creds posted on the main site) seems to have resisted the scrapers. Presumably if they are too stupid to scrape correctly they are also too stupid to incorporate a trivial auth.
I don't really understand why there is resistance to in-browser Anubis-style gating using crypto mining for public sites like this.
You mine crypto and my free service remains cost-neutral. Yes, that transfers some of the cost to you, but it is marginal.
You want to bang on my servers with the fury of a thousand madmen, then I'll scale up the servers and you can pay the marginal cost of your access.
Or micropayments, of course, but hard to get normal users to sign up for micropayments. Micropayments could of course be the way to bypass the crypto mining gate.
>I don't really understand why there is resistance to in-browser Anubis-style gating using crypto mining for public sites like this.
But in the case of anubis it's not even used for crypto. It's just wasted.
>You mine crypto and my free service remains cost-neutral. Yes, that transfers some of the cost to you, but it is marginal.
No, the problem is time wasted. I don't care about the electricity cost. Spending 10s to solve a challenge on a 5W SoC translates to 0.0005 cents (yes, cents, not dollars). Meanwhile if I click on a link and it doesn't load in 5s, I'm seriously questioning the value of your blog or whatever, and will probably just close the tab.
Instead of punishing a criminal, you make everybody pay.
This is not only unfair to legitimate users having to pay.
It also needs to explain what actually happens when the Ddos succeeds (I know, you are talking about scrapers, but what’s the difference really?). Does that mean that the attacker just gets to shrug it off.
Don’t take my statements as facts, I just want to outline a few reason I could come up with that show a purely technical solution might not be enough.
Akin to “just use Cloudflare, it’s free”.
Yes it works but why conceding defeat and say “oh from now on you depend on a business to publish a server”?
There are definitely patterns you can use against the scrapers. This maintainer just didn't have time for it, which is understandable.
We direct scraper traffic to a bot-specific server using Cloudflare's load balancer, slowly analyzing traffic and adding conditions one at a time. No accidental scraper DDoS in a long time.
Most scrapers are relatively honest in some way shape or form.
>We direct scraper traffic to a bot-specific server using Cloudflare's load balancer, slowly analyzing traffic and adding conditions one at a time. No accidental scraper DDoS in a long time.
What's the point of this compared to letting cloudflare handle everything automagically? Presumably whatever heuristics they come up with are going to be better than you can, given limited time and budget?
What kind of uptime/expectations/etc. are you working with?
Scraper "attacks" don't take down our robot-specific server very often; it's safe for us to take heavy-handed approaches that sometimes redirect users there. 99% (made-up high number) of the time, the misdirected users don't realize anything is amiss.
Start by analyzing your traffic, specifically user agents. Look for "robot" or even "bot" in the user agent and load balance those to a robot-specific server. This can all be done within Cloudflare. The only code is the user agent condition. Note: I'm very open to input here if anyone reading notices that we're shooting ourselves in the feet. Based on our analysis, the remaining traffic is a good picture of our human users.
We have loads of other conditions, mostly balancing specific IP ranges for entities when we know exactly who they are, but this is a good start.
What are they scraping the gentoo bugzilla for? I'm confused. Unless you're actively using Gentoo why would this be a resource? Very confusing. Also you'd think we'd have LLM BitTorrent by now, where if they want to scrape something we get a DHT hash for the content and share it with one another, rather than melt servers with the millionth request of the day.
At this point they've mostly run out of material, so ANY type of content is valuable. Your small personal website, why would they scrape that? It's 10.000 additional words, wouldn't want to miss that. My Github repos.... got to get buggy code from somewhere I guess.
I get what you're asking, and I'm wondering the same. Not all sources are created equally and we see the results all the time. LLMs outputs nonsense all the time, like Flock cameras containing 5 grams of gold and ounces of copper, because they are completely on critical of their sources. Perhaps there's some weights that says: Kernel mailing list, MariaDB documentation and Microsofts Learning sites are 100% trust, Reddit 50%, 4Chan 10%, but I doubt it.
Anthropic might care a little bit, seeing as they scan books, but again, is it just all books? Because other than some flowery language I don't really see the point in scanning a 1970s paperback only spy novel.
They're mining the written output of technical talent discussing troubleshooting, bug finding, patches, inter-dependencies, etc. It's an AI trainer's wet dream.
Also: where exactly are AI companies incentivized to be anything but shitty 'neighbors'?
Spam, DDoS attacks and other network abuse used to cause your hosting company or provider to call you and tell you to knock it off or you'll get disconnected, if your provider was reputable. If your provider wasn't reputable, it was likely a matter of time before they would get a nasty call from their upstream provider.
Now it just gets you a thank-you from the sales team for all the bandwidth you bought.
Meanwhile, do any of the cloud providers have any incentive to do anything about this? Hell no. They're making money off you having to ramp up extra or bigger instances. They're making money off the bandwidth. They're making money off the people doing the crawling, too. They're incentivized to do the exact opposite of effectively help you with your AI bot problem.
There's a reddit thread from 9 years ago with people complaining the site blocking crawlers and thus not being indexed by search engines. So I'm not sure what they consider "overload." At this point they should dump the db on thepiratebay.
Dumping the database won't stop the scrappers because humans running the scrappers are not even aware Gentoo exists. They're just scrapping every website their bots find.
going on a bit of a tangent here - some discussion there seems to be imply that AI bots mostly use IPv4s, which makes sense to me given that they are probably bots hosted by some cloud. Whereas IPv6 may be more organic traffic from e.g. mobile users (not in this case probably)... which made me think if at some point IPv6 may at some point win against IPv4 just because its more organic traffic (i.e. not from big tech cloud), leading to pages blocking IPv4? Just speculation on my side
Just put the website behind an x402 gate [0] (yes it uses stablecoins) requiring payment if a bot wants to access the content which acts like a Captcha and detect them if they are on direct data center IP or are using residential proxies.
Stablecoins have a great use-case and you get paid for bots to access the site with the humans living in peace without the site getting botted.
Corrected title: "Gentoo bugzilla closed because the guy running it, who says it is 'unusable anyway', saw a lot of traffic from different IP addresses with no clear pattern and accuses AI"
The year is 2026, somehow peoples basic web apps are not able to keep up with scrapers. Scrapers are not new. My side load is like .01 even with 10x the traffic of last year. It's called "serving static content", "caching" and many other things that are not new concepts.
Then you've got good old cloudflare which is free to use
1. You shouldn't need to be a professional sysadmin to be able to deploy a basic semi-dynamic website
2. Considering the spike of complaints over the past two years and the fact that they range from small time site operators to larger orgs (Linux Kernel, GNOME, Duke University, etc), do you think that maybe you're missing part of the problem space?
While we're dealing with the same issue at work, I sometimes still wonder exactly who these scrapers are. OpenAI, Google, Anthropic and others are normally fairly well behaved (Minus Anthropic attempting to hide behind a browser-for-hire company). Mostly you can get IP range and user-agents for the large players, while it problems mostly stem from bots pretending to be Chrome.
Our largest offenders seems to be mostly limited to South-East Asia, so probably mostly Chinese AI projects, but that's speculation. I also don't recall ever seeing Grok IP ranges or a specific Grok UA, but that doesn't mean that they're hiding, perhaps they're just not interested.
One of the defining characteristics of AI turned out to be utter and profound facelessness. The scraping, the data centers, the slop content, it's like it all comes from thin air. Nobody is talking about who is really doing all this or why, because it's always just coming from... somewhere else outside of our place.
And then it's pushed on the end users with the same amount of explanation and reason. You must adopt this now. The FOMO is insane.
Most of the nonsense comes through botnets/residential proxies, so it's very hard to say.
Well, some websites claimed China is behind it, which could make sense (I would not know either way). At the same time, though, I kind of doubt your carte blanche here for all those companies. Why would you think none of them are responsible for the AI slop spam?
> Our largest offenders seems to be mostly limited to South-East Asia, so probably mostly Chinese AI projects, but that's speculation
Ok. So you also don't know. Well, I don't know either, but I don't make a speculation by claiming x, y, and z companies to be exempt. In my book they are all responsible.
We see constant abuse from the Tencent ASN/associated ACE ASN, and I've memorized the china169 backbone asn as AS4837 because of thr nonstop crawlers splattered across their network ranges. It's not possible to ID the operator running the crawlers running from these networks but there's a clear signal of the origin of some of these entities.
Are we assuming that this is the companies themselves scraping data from training or is this "agents" acting on behalf of users? Nowadays every major chat UI (ChatGPT, Claude etc) has a "tool" that allows LLM to load web pages, so it must generate some traffic.
After a decade and half we had to restrict our public side and reorganize our old TED content because scrappers were really hungry for assorted captioned videos. If you have anything of value for training you get eaten alive if you stick out, it's like wearing short pants in the summer tundra.
It's going to change a lot the internet we knew, unless somehow we managed to agree on a common high quality dataset repository.
It is time for micropayments integrated in the browser. Pay 5 cents to access each bug report. Not fun, it shouldn't be like this, but better than not having a bugtracker at all.
The question is what exactly are you trying to achieve. Do you want to prevent them from gathering data or do you want to save resources?
If it is the latter, then, perhaps, some p2p (torrent-like) content delivery system could help.
0.05 cents even. The beautiful thing is, minuscule amounts of micropayments are already enough to fix the incentives
Not sure it works, isn't it already like that if you have the cursed javascript-only pages? It's basically proof of work to access their content (and if you are scrapping en masse you likely also need some LLM getting involved)
I think it's gonna kill off the internet not just for bots but to whole class of lower income countries, especially for younger learners
and do you happen to know a zero friction payment system that works internationally like the Internet itself does? because I promise you that unless you already have a captive audience, even a minuscule amount of friction to access your service will cost you an overwhelming percentage of organic human visitors.
Something like Chaum's blind-signature based ecash, or GNU Taler would be ideal in terms of efficiency, but it's still centralized in distribution. Freenet currently uses something like this.
Another option I was thinking of would be a pretty inflationary (or demurrage) cryptocurrency in which you have some sort of RandomX or other CPU-bound PoW. A web server could act as a mining pool and use mining shares interchangibly with micropayments.
You could do this mining-share method with Monero right now, it's just that you have higher transaction size in Monero and no real analogue to Bitcoin's LN-based microtransactions. Also you would want the cryptocurrency to be more inflationary (or demurrage-based) to promote usage.
Monero's FCMP++ lays some groundwork for payment channels, but it still lacks the nessisary timelocks. Also there was DLSAG which could have enabled payment channels I think, but it's no longer relevant. I also insist that you would need to change the tokenomics to favor greater inflation (maybe you could make coinbase scale linearly with hashrate?), otherwise the miner reward would be economicially insufficient.
Friction-free is a big ask. Brave tried something a while back with their Brave Payments, but of course no one trusts them and it’s not going anywhere.
Frictionless micropayments is THE business opportunity dangling here. I'm so disappointed that the Bitcoin bros never made it easy and fast to use Bitcoin for peer to peer micropayments.
Re audience, the audience for Gentoo bugzilla went just to zero. If even 1% of the current bugzilla users would use the micropayments, that's literally infinitely more organic human visitors than today.
Perhaps the biggest problem is 5 cents or less isn't enough to cover minimum transaction fees.
Visa fees.
How many pages does the average software developer visit everyday? 1.000? Price at 0.001 per load and it’ll be completely impractical for crawlers but super cheap for the average connected human on earth.
That would gate the internet to whole lower income countries
Hedgewars had to lock down its bugzilla and repo too, for the exact same reason. So far the really simple method used (basic auth with the creds posted on the main site) seems to have resisted the scrapers. Presumably if they are too stupid to scrape correctly they are also too stupid to incorporate a trivial auth.
I don't really understand why there is resistance to in-browser Anubis-style gating using crypto mining for public sites like this.
You mine crypto and my free service remains cost-neutral. Yes, that transfers some of the cost to you, but it is marginal.
You want to bang on my servers with the fury of a thousand madmen, then I'll scale up the servers and you can pay the marginal cost of your access.
Or micropayments, of course, but hard to get normal users to sign up for micropayments. Micropayments could of course be the way to bypass the crypto mining gate.
>I don't really understand why there is resistance to in-browser Anubis-style gating using crypto mining for public sites like this.
But in the case of anubis it's not even used for crypto. It's just wasted.
>You mine crypto and my free service remains cost-neutral. Yes, that transfers some of the cost to you, but it is marginal.
No, the problem is time wasted. I don't care about the electricity cost. Spending 10s to solve a challenge on a 5W SoC translates to 0.0005 cents (yes, cents, not dollars). Meanwhile if I click on a link and it doesn't load in 5s, I'm seriously questioning the value of your blog or whatever, and will probably just close the tab.
Instead of punishing a criminal, you make everybody pay.
This is not only unfair to legitimate users having to pay.
It also needs to explain what actually happens when the Ddos succeeds (I know, you are talking about scrapers, but what’s the difference really?). Does that mean that the attacker just gets to shrug it off.
Don’t take my statements as facts, I just want to outline a few reason I could come up with that show a purely technical solution might not be enough.
Akin to “just use Cloudflare, it’s free”.
Yes it works but why conceding defeat and say “oh from now on you depend on a business to publish a server”?
If we could identify who is doing this, I bet that those people would be publicly burned at the stake by now.
There are definitely patterns you can use against the scrapers. This maintainer just didn't have time for it, which is understandable.
We direct scraper traffic to a bot-specific server using Cloudflare's load balancer, slowly analyzing traffic and adding conditions one at a time. No accidental scraper DDoS in a long time.
Most scrapers are relatively honest in some way shape or form.
One thing that surpised me about gentoo is just how low budget it is as an operation. They are doing everything with a $12k budget. [1]
[1] https://www.gentoo.org/news/2026/01/05/new-year.html
Basically volunteer-run. Which makes sense in this context; what gets worked on is mostly about what people want to work on.
>We direct scraper traffic to a bot-specific server using Cloudflare's load balancer, slowly analyzing traffic and adding conditions one at a time. No accidental scraper DDoS in a long time.
What's the point of this compared to letting cloudflare handle everything automagically? Presumably whatever heuristics they come up with are going to be better than you can, given limited time and budget?
How did you implement this? My site's getting hammered, any tips would be appreciated
What kind of uptime/expectations/etc. are you working with?
Scraper "attacks" don't take down our robot-specific server very often; it's safe for us to take heavy-handed approaches that sometimes redirect users there. 99% (made-up high number) of the time, the misdirected users don't realize anything is amiss.
Start by analyzing your traffic, specifically user agents. Look for "robot" or even "bot" in the user agent and load balance those to a robot-specific server. This can all be done within Cloudflare. The only code is the user agent condition. Note: I'm very open to input here if anyone reading notices that we're shooting ourselves in the feet. Based on our analysis, the remaining traffic is a good picture of our human users.
We have loads of other conditions, mostly balancing specific IP ranges for entities when we know exactly who they are, but this is a good start.
> Most scrapers are relatively honest in some way shape or form.
Did you miss a "dis" in there?
Enough with playing around the issue. The way out of this mess is not to protect with tech that works but with principles and laws.
This is not a tech problem. This is about what should or should not be legal.
Nor it’s a question of having time to implement solution X or Y.
If someone attacks you yes, you should have better security but you also need to have legal recourse, or it will never stop.
Ddos is already illegal.
I am not a lawyer so don’t ask me for exact resources, which vary by country anyway, but stop treating scrapers as an inescapable force of nature.
What are they scraping the gentoo bugzilla for? I'm confused. Unless you're actively using Gentoo why would this be a resource? Very confusing. Also you'd think we'd have LLM BitTorrent by now, where if they want to scrape something we get a DHT hash for the content and share it with one another, rather than melt servers with the millionth request of the day.
At this point they've mostly run out of material, so ANY type of content is valuable. Your small personal website, why would they scrape that? It's 10.000 additional words, wouldn't want to miss that. My Github repos.... got to get buggy code from somewhere I guess.
I get what you're asking, and I'm wondering the same. Not all sources are created equally and we see the results all the time. LLMs outputs nonsense all the time, like Flock cameras containing 5 grams of gold and ounces of copper, because they are completely on critical of their sources. Perhaps there's some weights that says: Kernel mailing list, MariaDB documentation and Microsofts Learning sites are 100% trust, Reddit 50%, 4Chan 10%, but I doubt it.
Anthropic might care a little bit, seeing as they scan books, but again, is it just all books? Because other than some flowery language I don't really see the point in scanning a 1970s paperback only spy novel.
They're scraping everything. It doesn't matter what. It doesn't matter if it makes sense. They just scrape it all.
"There Will Be Blood" but it's 2026 and Plainview's child is AI.
They're mining the written output of technical talent discussing troubleshooting, bug finding, patches, inter-dependencies, etc. It's an AI trainer's wet dream.
Also: where exactly are AI companies incentivized to be anything but shitty 'neighbors'?
Spam, DDoS attacks and other network abuse used to cause your hosting company or provider to call you and tell you to knock it off or you'll get disconnected, if your provider was reputable. If your provider wasn't reputable, it was likely a matter of time before they would get a nasty call from their upstream provider.
Now it just gets you a thank-you from the sales team for all the bandwidth you bought.
Meanwhile, do any of the cloud providers have any incentive to do anything about this? Hell no. They're making money off you having to ramp up extra or bigger instances. They're making money off the bandwidth. They're making money off the people doing the crawling, too. They're incentivized to do the exact opposite of effectively help you with your AI bot problem.
Lots of build failure detailed investigations and gcc/kernel expertise in debugging misbehaving or outright ICEs.
That's it, I guess?
There's a reddit thread from 9 years ago with people complaining the site blocking crawlers and thus not being indexed by search engines. So I'm not sure what they consider "overload." At this point they should dump the db on thepiratebay.
Dumping the database won't stop the scrappers because humans running the scrappers are not even aware Gentoo exists. They're just scrapping every website their bots find.
Indexers should pay for each request.
Maybe Taler could help ?
And people complain about cloudflare/anubis/etc. Unfortunately, it's looking like this is the alternative.
going on a bit of a tangent here - some discussion there seems to be imply that AI bots mostly use IPv4s, which makes sense to me given that they are probably bots hosted by some cloud. Whereas IPv6 may be more organic traffic from e.g. mobile users (not in this case probably)... which made me think if at some point IPv6 may at some point win against IPv4 just because its more organic traffic (i.e. not from big tech cloud), leading to pages blocking IPv4? Just speculation on my side
The hardest-to-mitigate bot traffic tends to come from residential proxies, and most residential connections are still v4-only.
However, it is also easy to get large numbers of v6 addresses cheaply.
My residential ISP doesn't support IPv6 at all. If a site is ipv6 only, I can't reach it unless I use a VPN.
This is weird, every VPS I've rented in the last 8 years had IPv6, and some didn't even had IPv4.
If a problematic bot is on any mainstream VPS it will just get shut down.
So where are bugs reported now?
That's the thing, they aren't.
Just put the website behind an x402 gate [0] (yes it uses stablecoins) requiring payment if a bot wants to access the content which acts like a Captcha and detect them if they are on direct data center IP or are using residential proxies.
Stablecoins have a great use-case and you get paid for bots to access the site with the humans living in peace without the site getting botted.
Job done.
[0] https://stevekrouse.com/x402
Please write a function that returns true when the user is using a residential proxy and false when it is a normal user on a residential IP address.
Every website that wants to, can just charge for dumps. Anubis or even Cloudflare can handle the rest I think.
Scrapers will ignore the dumps.
You can link to them in 10 million HTTP 429 responses, they will still ignore them.
Those scrapers can be blocked. Some scrapers won't ignore the responses, and maybe it'll lead to a meaningful reduction in scraping traffic.
AI skynet is winning. It is stealing time from humans, thus forcing down their activity, as can be seen here.
A headline would be great if those AI companies would close down. I hold them all responsible for this.
Plot twist: the AI wins not through terminators but a kafka nightmare
Corrected title: "Gentoo bugzilla closed because the guy running it, who says it is 'unusable anyway', saw a lot of traffic from different IP addresses with no clear pattern and accuses AI"
The year is 2026, somehow peoples basic web apps are not able to keep up with scrapers. Scrapers are not new. My side load is like .01 even with 10x the traffic of last year. It's called "serving static content", "caching" and many other things that are not new concepts.
Then you've got good old cloudflare which is free to use
1. You shouldn't need to be a professional sysadmin to be able to deploy a basic semi-dynamic website
2. Considering the spike of complaints over the past two years and the fact that they range from small time site operators to larger orgs (Linux Kernel, GNOME, Duke University, etc), do you think that maybe you're missing part of the problem space?
All these experts here in advanced computing but people don't know how to cache with webpages?
Are you volunteering to setup and host that extra complexity for the Gentoo project?
A bugtracker is inherently dynamic.